Actung Actung. Welcome to We Have Ways of Making You Talk Inside The Archives.

We're blind to dust off some of our best old episodes to reshare with you all.

And today we've got a brilliant chat with the lawyer and author of the Rat Line, Philippe Sans.

Uwaga Uwaga, which is of course Polish for Actung Actung. Welcome to this very, very special

edition of We Have Ways of Making You Talk. And we've chosen Polish with our guest in mind.

Joining us is the author, Philippe Sans, who's written two of the most remarkable books in recent times.

Four years ago, East West Street told the story of both Philippe's family history, particularly his

grandfather and grandmother, but also the story of the Nuremberg Trials and the development of human rights law.

And now we have the follow-up, the Rat Line, which tells the story of Otto Vechta and his wife,

Schallotto, both of our Nazis and Otto's attempt to evade justice after the war.

Philippe, welcome. Welcome to the podcast. You're, of course, a podcasting mega star in your own right,

with the Rat Line, which has been a massive success, isn't it? Well, I wouldn't put it like that,

but I'm thrilled to be on this podcast with YouTube Fellows because I've listened to it and I enjoy it.

And of course, your title could not be more apt. Well, I've got to say, someone tipped me off and said,

have you heard the Rat Line? I went, no. And I listened to it. And my god, I literally just

sat through the whole lot. I was utterly gripped. And I think I then wrote you a rather pathetic fan email,

saying how much I loved it, but I thought it was just completely fantastic. I got a lovely email from you,

but I got a lovely email from you. But of course, the real test in my household, as in many households,

is the wife. And the test for us was as follows. We were driving to Wales for a weekend,

and I just had the first cut from our wonderful producer, Gemma Nubi. And I said, would you like to

listen to the, would you like to listen to the first episode? And she still said, well, okay,

I'll give, let's listen to the beginning and see how it goes. And after episode four, she said,

...