Inside Johnny Carson and Joan Rivers’ Rise and Fall on The Tonight Show
Our American Stories
iHeartPodcasts
4.6 • 817 Ratings
🗓️ 24 December 2025
⏱️ 8 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
On this episode of Our American Stories, for years, Johnny Carson and Joan Rivers defined late-night television. Carson ruled The Tonight Show as its steady center, while Rivers became his most trusted guest host, winning audiences with her sharp timing and fearless comedy. Night after night, viewers came to see them as a natural pairing, shaping what a late-night talk show could be. Then, in nineteen eighty-six, everything changed. Joan Rivers accepted her own late-night show, a move that fractured one of television’s most influential relationships. Mark Malkoff, author of Love Johnny Carson: One Obsessive Fan's Journey to Find the Genius Behind the Legend, tells the story.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | This is an I-Heart podcast. |
| 0:02.6 | Guaranteed Human. |
| 0:14.0 | This is Lee Habib, and this is our American Stories, the show where America is the star |
| 0:19.7 | and the American people, coming to you |
| 0:22.1 | from the city where the west begins, Fort Worth, Texas. They were the king and queen of late |
| 0:28.5 | night TV until it all came crashing down. Johnny Carson reigned Supreme as the host of the |
| 0:33.8 | Tonight Show, and by his side was Joan Rivers, his trusted protege. But in 1986, |
| 0:40.1 | Joan did the unthinkable. Here with the story is Mark Malkoff, author of In Love with Johnny |
| 0:46.0 | Carson. Take it away, Mark. |
| 0:49.4 | Johnny was secure enough that he would let anybody guest host the show that he thought would |
| 0:53.9 | be interesting. Johnny felt he needed rest from the show to do the best that he did. So it would |
| 0:59.0 | be anybody from golfer Arnold Palmer to Hogan's Hero star Bob Crane to Don Rickles to |
| 1:06.7 | Michael Landon guest hosting the show. You would have Kirk Douglas, a big movie star guest host the show. |
| 1:12.4 | Then you would have quarterback from the Jets, Joe Namath guest host. |
| 1:15.4 | You never knew who was going to be guest host in this show. |
| 1:19.1 | Joan Rivers in 1965 probably had the best comedic debut. |
| 1:24.2 | You know, in the last few years, if you find out, especially in television, people who usually |
| 1:29.2 | write comedy material for other people, comedy writers, that is, are not usually amusing |
| 1:34.2 | themselves. I don't know why. But here's a young lady who not only writes funny, she is funny |
| 1:39.4 | herself. Would you welcome, please, Joan Rivers. |
| 1:41.8 | She went on Johnny's show. |
| 1:44.4 | She was introduced as a female comedy writer. |
... |
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