Hello, this is Jeremy Bowen, the International Editor of BBC News, and I'm here because I want

to talk to you about an event I'm doing with Intelligent Squared on the 2nd of November in London,

and I'm going to be talking about the more than 30 years that I've spent reporting on major

events in the Middle East with my great friend and colleague over many, many years, Justin Webb.

And I'm sure we'll talk about a few other things as well, Justin and I started at the BBC

on the same day in 1984. So if you'd like to join us either in person or online, then visit

IntelligentSquared.com to find out more. Welcome to Intelligent Squared, I'm producer Catherine Hughes.

In the past decade, the power of Chinese state surveillance has reached into all aspects of

his citizens' lives, from the app which processes most of the country's payments to gate recognition

technology which can identify someone simply from the way they walk. On this episode of the

podcast we were joined by Josh Chin, Deputy China Bureau Chief for the Wall Street Journal,

to explore China's growing quest for social control, and why they should worry us all.

I hope for this discussion is Katie Stallard, senior editor for China and Global Affairs

at the New Statesman, his Katie with more.

I'm delighted to introduce our guest today, Josh Chin. Josh is the Deputy China Bureau Chief

for the Wall Street Journal. He is an award-winning journalist who spent six years as a politics reporter

in China covering law, civil society and the government's use of technology,

on which topic he is the co-author with Lisa Lin of surveillance state inside China's quest

to launch a new era of social control, which I cannot recommend highly enough. So with that,

let me say Josh, welcome, it's great to see you. I want to start as you do in the book in Xinjiang,

where you describe the utterly dehumanizing process through which a week or a couple,

Tahrir Hamut and his wife Marhaba, are taken down into the basement of a police station

...