Welcome to Hard Talk from the BBC World Service with me, Stephen Sacker. My guest today has spent five

decades on the front line of a fight which has pitted her against powerful forces in the food industry,

fashion, medical science and far beyond. Ingrid Newkirk's cause is animal rights, and her battlefield covers pretty much every aspect of

human life on earth. To put it bluntly, homo sapiens have, ever since their emergence, exploited

animals. To change that in 1980, she co-founded Peter, people for the ethical treatment of animals. Today the group

claims millions of supporters, has branches across the globe and a staff of some 500. Newkirk remains

Peter's president. Their mantra is simple. Animals are not ours to eat, wear, experiment on or use for entertainment.

For decades, Peter activists have been taking high-profile direct action against businesses,

farms, laboratories, identified as the worst culprits in the systemic abuse of animal rights.

They've used sensational stunts to garner worldwide media attention,

and they have scored some significant victories

when it comes to animal testing and the use of fur in fashion.

But still, the systemic human exploitation of animals continues.

Is Peter engaged in an unwinnable war. Well, Ingrid Newkirk joins me now. Welcome

to Hard Talk. Thanks very much, Stephen. It's a great pleasure to have you in the studio. Let me start by

trying to establish a core principle. Is it your belief that animals should enjoy equal rights, the same rights as humans?

Well, not the same rights, because of course they don't need the right to do some of the things we wish to do,

like drive a car or vote. But they do need the right to be respected. I think their living beings

just like us. And so they should be

understood as much as we possibly can understand them. We shouldn't inflict needless pain on them.

And we should curb some of our habits that cause them a lot of suffering.

Peter, your organisation, people for the ethical treatment of animals,

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