India Between Empires (Radio Edit)

You're Dead to Me

BBC

Comedy, History

4.7 • 10.9K Ratings

🗓️ 8 December 2025

⏱️ 29 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Greg Jenner is joined in early modern India by historian Dr Jagjeet Lally and comedian Nish Kumar to learn all about the subcontinent’s dynamic 18th century.

From the 16th century, the dominant power in India was the Mughal Empire. According to the traditional narrative, when the Mughals began to decline in the 18th century, the subcontinent descended into political chaos, and European trading powers – most notably the British East India Company – swooped in to take advantage and (in their words) restore order. But can we trust this story?

In this episode, we look at India’s long 18th century not as a period of chaos, but one of dynamic transformation and exciting developments. Taking in the rise of new powers including the Marathas, the Rajputs and the Sikh Empire, and looking at changes in the economy, global trade, artistic patronage and gender relations, we explore what India was really like at this time.

This is a radio edit of the original podcast episode. For the full-length version, please look further back in the feed.

Hosted by: Greg Jenner Research by: Clara Chamberlain Written by: Emmie Rose Price-Goodfellow, Emma Nagouse, and Greg Jenner Produced by: Emmie Rose Price-Goodfellow and Greg Jenner Audio Producer: Steve Hankey Production Coordinator: Gill Huggett Senior Producer: Emma Nagouse Executive Editor: Philip Sellars

Transcript

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0:00.0	BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, podcasts.
0:07.0	My Christmas Mix is pure 90s festive nostalgia.
0:11.1	You know, the Christmas songs you listen to on repeat.
0:14.0	Ho!
0:14.3	Ho! Ho! No, no, no.
0:17.5	I'm all about the big hitting Christmas anthems.
0:20.4	Come on, guys. What about those tunes that really slay? It's Christmas kitchen disco season, surely.
0:26.4	Give me hip-hip-christmas bangers every day. Those Christmas tracks that are straight out of Lapland.
0:30.9	Get all kinds of Christmassy. Just search Christmas music on BBC Sounds.
0:37.4	Hello and welcome to Your Dead to Me, the Radio 4 comedy podcast that takes history seriously.
0:42.4	My name is Greg Jenner. I'm a public historian author and broadcaster.
0:45.6	And today we are joining a trading caravan and trekking all the way back to the 18th century
0:50.1	to learn about Indian political and cultural life in this particular period.
0:54.4	And to help us, we have two very special guests in History Corner.
0:58.4	He's Associate Professor of the History of Early Modern and Colonial India at UCL.
1:02.9	He's a historian of economic and material life in early modern India with a special interest in trade.
1:08.3	He might have read one of his wonderful books, India and the Silk Roads, or and the early modern world. It's Dr. Jaggit Lally. Welcome, Jaggit. Hi, Greg. Delighted to have you here. And in Comedy Corner, he's a comedian, presenter and podcaster. You'll have seen him all over the TV on the Mash Report, QI, mock the week, Live at the Apollo, the best ever series of Taskmaster, no arguments. He's also the co-host of Pod Save the UK and a frequent guest on the Bugle podcast and Radio Force and News Quiz. He's very busy. And you might have seen one of his award-winning stand-up shows, including his most recent, Nish Don't Kill My Vibe. It's Nish Kumar. Welcome Mish. Genuinely, I'm so excited. I will say I put myself in a bit of a difficult position here because I did study history to an undergraduate level. So like there's a lot of pressure on me to at least loosely sound like I know what I'm talking about. And I am feeling the genuine hot flush of panic. Just for the benefit of listeners, there's a circular seating arrangement, and it is genuinely giving me flashbacks to feeling
2:05.1	underprepared in history seminars.
2:09.9	How are you on 18th century, India?
2:12.4	Basically, I've got some awareness of 1857, the uprisings, and how they...
2:17.4	That's not the 18th century. Oh my God, I've got it wrong immediately.
2:21.2	Get out, Nish. This is going to be fun. This is going to be an absolute disaster.
	...

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