Okay, guys buckle up this is a conversation that's overdue. I've been asked to have it for a long time. I've been smeared by people who think that any incremental victory in protecting the unborn is actually evil. It's actually, it could be an example of apostasy,

and I have to repent and probably be put under church discipline.

Listen, I want the total and immediate abolition of abortion,

and I think abortion needs to be criminalized and I think the

pre-born children need to have equal rights protected in law and treated as such in our

country but because I've sometimes said an incremental victory is better than no

law that protects unborn children if you don't

have the votes. I've been smeared by these kooky weirdo

immediateists who call themselves abolitionists and they've co-opted that term

because William Wilberforce was an abolitionist, but he actually supported legislation that refit slave ships to reduce the suffering of Africans making the voyage to the British colonies.

But I guess William Wilberforce is not an abolitionist

because he's an incrementalist, apostate compromise coward.

That's what we're told by some people in the fight for the lives of the

unborn children. Jason Storms and I, my friend at Operation Save America,

continue our conversation from the last episode about this divide and

debate over immediateism and incrementalism and I think

Jason's one of the most courageous respectable, honorable men of integrity that I've

ever met. He's become a good friend and is becoming a better friend and I really want you to listen to this conversation and share it because I think it brings a lot of clarity regarding this argument and fight that's been happening amongst those that want to end abortion that's gotten really nasty

and dirty and I think Jason navigates the waters of this divide and debate really, really well.

Enjoy this conversation here at the Seth Grouper Show. Now let's pivot a little bit Jason and I want to keep this as a good conversation.

Now I for for years and years, I just turned 33,

I'm not all that old, but I've been at the honor

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