Welcome to End the Well. This is the first, first live podcast we've ever done. I want to give

everybody a little bit of a background here. Why don't you kind of, is there any way to just

kind of flip so people can see what we're doing this in front of. Yeah, this is a lot of fun.

So we're in CronCon in Las Vegas with a bunch of really cool true crime

officiados.

And they all, everybody gets it.

One of the things I love about this is that people want to learn, they want to understand.

Well, I will tell you what was, I just raced over here after doing

a presentation on Scott Peterson to thousands of people. And they thought that it was going to be

that they had extra security. They thought it was going to be a problem, you know, because of that.

But people are fascinated here.

So let me give a little quick background story on Mark Eric goes.

First, Mark and I have known each other for decades.

Mark and I used to do cases together before I'd ever done anything than anybody paid

attention to.

And he was already pretty famous.

But Mark and I,

we squared off many years, and he's one of those guys that he's an old school criminal

defense lawyer, which means Mark will fight viciously for his clients and then go out into the

hallway and ask you about your weekend. And it's one of the things I always, there's that, that's a dying breed in the criminal

defense world. Well, you're not kidding. It's a dying breed from the prosecutor's standpoint.

The only thing I didn't like about Mark was that he's so damn persuasive. I would always drive

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