This is 99% invisible. I'm Roman Mars.

The COVID pandemic was terrible in every way, but I had one strange bright spot in my locked-in homebound routine. A weekly Zoom call with the genius

director, writer, and producer Ryan Kugler of Black Panther Fruitvale station Station, and Creed Fame.

I know, it surprised me too.

You're about to learn more about how our relationship got started

and our various takes on how we navigate creativity and collaboration

on this episode of In Proximity, a podcast from Proximity

Media, the company he founded with Lindsay Kugler and Seth O'Haniyan.

It is a fun conversation with a person I really adore and admire and I thought you'd like to hear it.

And after you listen, I encourage you to go subscribe to In Proximity because it is a great show,

especially if you like learning and thinking about the creative process.

So without further ado, here's me being interviewed by Ryan Kuglin.

Enjoy. You're listening to PROX.

There's a million ways to make something good.

Like I've reached this point where I was like,

I think there's the beginning of your career you feel like

You don't know how to make something good and in the middle of your career you're like I'm the only one who knows how to make something good

You know the perfect way.

There's like one way to tell a story.

And then later on in your career,

you're like, there's a million ways to make this good. You're listening to in proximity.

Roman Mars is the host and creator of 99% invisible.

...