Hey, it's NPR's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbong. Today's interview isn't supposed to be a funny one.

It's about a pretty serious book, actually. Midnight in Moscow is a memoir by John J. Sullivan,

the former ambassador to Russia about his time at the post dealing with Vladimir Putin.

Like I said, pretty serious stuff.

But in this interview with NPR's Mary Louise Kelly, he relays this anecdote where he's dealing with the Russian state apparatus.

And it's almost farcical how not slick with it, how kind of goofy the Russian officers

in charge of keeping tabs on him are.

But they're not so inept that the U.S. shouldn't take them seriously.

John J. Sullivan lays out his thoughts on approaching Russian aggression after the break.

In the U.S., national security news can feel far away from daily life.

Distant wars, murky conflicts, diplomacy behind closed doors. On our new show,

Sources and Methods. NPR reporters on the ground bring you stories of real people, helping you

understand why distant events matter here at home. Listen to sources and methods on the NPR app or

wherever you get your podcasts.

Very few Americans have sat down one-on-one across a table from Vladimir Putin.

Even fewer have negotiated with the Kremlin on behalf of first a Republican president,

and then, in short order, his Democratic successor.

Our next guest has. John Sullivan served as U.S. ambassador to Russia from 2019 to 2022, appointed by then President Trump, asked to stay

on in the job by President Biden. He writes about it in Midnight in Moscow, a memoir from the front lines of Russia's war against the West.

When I spoke with Ambassador Sullivan, I asked, does Putin's image of a ruthless but effective ex-KGB thug, does that square with reality?

Yes, but he doesn't give that appearance in person. He wants to strike a pose of such

strength and confidence that he does NAFTA bluster. As I write in the book, he talks in a soft

...