I'm Cal Newport, and this is In-depth, a semi-regular series where I interview interesting people about the quest to cultivate a deep life.

Today's episode is presented by Defender, a vehicle designed for those of us seeking adventure in a distracted world.

I'm excited about today's show because I'll be talking with Kendra Adachi.

I've known Kendra for a while.

She's a leader in the movement that she calls compassionate time management.

You might know her from her lazy genius podcast or from her book, The Lazy Genius.

But she has a new title out.

That's what we're going to be talking about today.

A new book that is called The Plan,

Manage Your Time, like a Lazy Genius.

So Kendra and I are exploring similar spaces that I explored in my prior episode with

Oliver Berkman, but we come at it from

different angles that I think are fascinating and useful for our quest on this show to understand

depth, how to build a life that matters without getting obsessed about the process of the building.

I think Kendra's fantastic on it. Here's some of the issues we get into in today's episode. Why being a genius in one thing means you might have to be lazy in many other

things and that that's okay. We talk about why the unceasing pursuit of greatness, which is the

focus of a lot of time management productivity advice, this idea that everything you're doing now is about achieving some greatness in the future.

We get into why that can be self-defeating and exhausting

and how the alternative, which Kendra calls integration,

which involves living wholly with your current situation,

can in the end be so much more fulfilling.

We get into my own recovery from greatness pursuit addiction.

...