Whenever human nature is invoked as a reason why we will or won't do something, I always

become a little bit wary because humans are many things.

And there's no doubt that we live in a culture that has rewarded parts of our nature

that are really incompatible with being able to hold in our heads, the severity

of the climate crisis, and to be able to come together in a spirit of cooperation and an emergency

to profoundly transform the way we live. I mean, I'm not sanguine about this.

I don't think our chances are good.

I think we have a pathway, which is very, very, very thin, and very unlikely that we might just manage to come together in time to change enough that we could keep

temperatures below a level where there would still be significant parts of our planet

that continue to support human life. That's my utopia, by the way.

You know, like this is why when liberals say, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good,

I'm like, whoa, like, perfect left the station a long time ago. We've already lost like Arctic sea ice,

the Great Barrier Reef, and we're losing the Amazon. Like no one's talking about perfect. Okay.

Yeah.