support for NPR and the following message come from the Walton Family Foundation, working to create

access to opportunity for people and communities by tackling tough social and environmental

problems. More information is at waltonfamilyfoundation.org.

Hey, it's Rachel. So we're doing something special here. In the spirit of giving, we are giving

you a preview of our bonus episodes, where you get to hear more questions and hear me reflect on what sticks with me about a particular guest or an answer that they gave.

You also get a little peek behind the curtain about what goes into making our show.

So usually these are just for our wild card plus supporters, just to give them something a little bit extra for their support.

We love our plus supporters, by the way.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, as always.

And if you're not a plus supporter yet, well, this is supposed to be a kick in the pants, but it's still in PR.

So it's more like a gentle little nudge to sign up.

When you do, you're supporting all our work here.

You get access to all these bonus episodes,

and you get to listen to every episode without ads.

So go to plus.npr.org slash wildcard to find out more.

And hey, what about a little gift subscription

for your nearest and dearest this holiday season?

Go to plus.npr.org slash wildcard.

Okay, with that, on to the episode.

It's a little bit random how two guests end up in the same bonus episode,

and it always makes me happy to think about the two of them in real life,

sitting down and having a beer together.

...