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Foreign Policy Live

If Americans Are Lawyers and Chinese Are Engineers, Who Is Going to Win?

Foreign Policy Live

Foreign Policy

Politics, News Commentary, News

4601 Ratings

🗓️ 25 August 2025

⏱️ 45 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

The United States and China are constantly looking for a leg up in their rivalry for geopolitical primacy. But what if the real advantage lies in adopting a bit of the other’s culture? A new book makes the case that while China has become an engineering state obsessed with building, the United States has become a lawyerly society focused on procedures and blocking. Can they learn from each other? Author and scholar Dan Wang sits down with Ravi Agrawal to discuss his new book, Breakneck: China’s Quest to Engineer the Future. Dan Wang: Breakneck: China’s Quest to Engineer the Future Ravi Agrawal: Why China’s Tech Dominance Is Not Inevitable Bob Davis: America’s Flailing Industrial Policy Can Take Lessons From China James Palmer: A Guide to Censorship in China Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

Hi, I'm Ravi Agrawal, Foreign Policies Editor-in-Chief. This is FP Live. The United States and China are

0:12.7

constantly looking for a leg up in their rivalry for geopolitical primacy. But what if the real

0:19.4

advantage lies in adopting a bit of the other's culture?

0:24.0

A new book makes the case that while China has become an engineering state, obsessed with

0:29.6

building, America has become a lawyerly society, focused on procedures and blocking.

0:37.4

Put another way, China builds too much too fast. The United

0:41.2

States builds too little, too late. Can the two learn from each other? Author Dan Wong joins me this

0:48.4

week. But first, just one thing where I riff on a story in the news. The integrity of U.S. intelligence.

0:56.4

Last Friday, U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Higgs had fired the Pentagon's intelligence agency chief,

1:03.1

Lieutenant General Jeffrey Cruz.

1:05.6

Details are sparse, but there is some history here.

1:09.3

Back in June, Cruz's office put out an early review of U.S.

1:12.9

strikes on Iranian nuclear facilities saying they had limited impact. That report was leaked.

1:21.0

The White House, which had said Iran's nuclear program was obliterated, described the report as

1:26.8

flat out wrong. Now, we can't be sure that Cruz

1:31.3

was fired for the contents of that report, or for the fact that it was leaked, or indeed for any

1:37.5

other reason that we don't and won't know about. But what we do know is this. Cruz had a long

1:43.8

career of non-partisan service.

1:46.6

And given what happened with the Iran report,

1:49.2

rumors are swirling that his firing was retribution for deviating from the White House line.

1:55.7

Regardless of whether or not those rumors are true,

1:58.3

the whole affair reduces confidence in the integrity and

...

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