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Pitchfork Economics with Nick Hanauer

If America Is “Winning,” Why Does the Economy Feel Like This? (with Talmon Joseph Smith)

Pitchfork Economics with Nick Hanauer

Civic Ventures

News, Business, Government, Politics

4.71.5K Ratings

🗓️ 23 December 2025

⏱️ 41 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

America has never been wealthier—so why does it feel so hard to get by?  New York Times economics reporter Talmon Joseph Smith joins Nick and Goldy this week to unpack the growing gap between economic headlines and the lived reality of most Americans. With nearly $200 trillion in national wealth and half the country holding just a sliver of it, they explore why GDP and aggregate growth keep telling a story working families don’t recognize—and what that disconnect means for our economy and our politics. Talmon Joseph Smith is an economics reporter currently covering labor markets, inequality, and political economy. His recent work at The New York Times has focused on the tension between headline economic indicators and lived economic reality. His forthcoming book, Clout and Capital, examines how power, influence, and wealth shape economic outcomes in America. Social Media:  @talsmith.bsky.social @talmonsmith Further reading:  America Has Never Been Wealthier. Here’s Why It Doesn’t Feel That Way. Michael W. Green - How a Broken Benchmark Quietly Broke America Read more from Talmon Joseph Smith Website: http://pitchforkeconomics.com Facebook: Pitchfork Economics Podcast Bluesky: @pitchforkeconomics.bsky.social Instagram: @pitchforkeconomics Threads: pitchforkeconomics TikTok: @pitchfork_econ YouTube: @pitchforkeconomics LinkedIn: Pitchfork Economics Twitter: @PitchforkEcon, @NickHanauer Substack: ⁠The Pitch⁠

Transcript

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0:00.0

The rising inequality and growing political instability that we see today are the direct result of decades of bad economic theory.

0:10.6

The last five decades of trickle-down economics haven't worked.

0:14.8

But what's the alternative?

0:16.3

Middle-out economics is the answer.

0:18.6

Because the middle class is the source of growth, not its consequence.

0:23.1

That's right.

0:28.7

This is pitchfork economics with Nick Hanauer, a podcast about how to build the economy from the middle out.

0:36.9

Welcome to the show. So, Nick, how are your

0:44.4

vibes this morning? My vibes are fine. Yeah, you're feeling good about the economy. Things are

0:50.7

going well for you, which is a good economy. Yes. I don't know if you knew this,

0:57.6

but apparently not all Americans feel that way. Yeah. No, I'm aware. And today we're joined

1:06.0

by an economics reporter from the New York Times who agrees with that. Yeah. Who's been focused on it.

1:13.6

He's a recent article out called America's never been wealthier. Here's why it doesn't feel that way,

1:19.0

which digs into this growing gap between the numbers and the lived experience of most people.

1:24.3

And I think it's obviously, it's a very big issue in America today. It was big in the

1:28.7

last election. It's, well, obviously, it's been a big deal for 25 years. We're just finally beginning

1:33.8

to grapple with it. To be clear, the majority of Americans have been grappling with this

1:39.7

for quite some time. Yeah, that was unfair, wasn't. It's politically worded. It's the political and media

1:46.0

elite who are just beginning to grapple with my God. GDP is so strong. Aggregate wealth is so high.

1:54.0

Why are people so upset? Yeah, exactly. My private plane has never been faster. Yeah, exactly.

2:00.1

Anyway, you know, it's just going to take a long time to get this to evolve more sensible

2:06.7

conversations about this.

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