Gravity is a problem.

It's a problem that has many of our smartest minds still searching for a solution.

It's been the subject of many, many papers and articles and books, including in Quantum Magazine and even in a previous episode of this podcast.

In short, Newton and Einstein both gave us wonderful theories about gravity,

but they famously break down when they come into contact with extreme situations

or the weirdness of quantum mechanics,

suggesting that there's something else going on,

some other explanation for this force that's so familiar in our lives.

What if, potentially, gravity somehow related to another familiar idea, heat?

Welcome to the Quantum Podcast, where we explore the frontiers of fundamental science and math.

I'm Samir Patel, editor-in-chief of Quantum Magazine.

Heat is in physics terms related to the disorder of molecules, a concept we know as entropy.

My guest today is accomplished science journalist George Musser, who recently explored for us a pretty

odd theory, one that has traditionally been sort of lightly regarded, but won't seem to go away.

And this theory posits that gravity might be a natural byproduct of disorder itself.

Welcome to the show, George.

Thanks for having me here.

I'm really excited to talk about this esoteric sometimes topic.

I love the esoteric stuff.

I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about yourself and your career and what you specialize

in before we jump into it.

So I've been a science writer for 30 years, I guess it's been now, writing originally about

...