Ian Leslie on McCartney, Lennon, and the Greatest Creative Partnership of All Time

Conversations with Tyler

Society & Culture, Education

4.8 • 2.4K Ratings

🗓️ 16 April 2025

⏱️ 59 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

It’s Beatles day! In this deep dive into one of music's most legendary partnerships, Ian Leslie and Tyler unpack the complex relationship between John Lennon and Paul McCartney. Leslie, whose book John & Paul: A Love Story in Songs examines this creative pairing, reveals how their contrasting personalities—John's intuitive, sometimes chaotic approach and Paul's methodical perfectionism—created a unique creative alchemy that neither could fully replicate after the Beatles split.

They explore John's immediate songwriting brilliance versus Paul's gradual development, debate when the Beatles truly became the Beatles, dissect their best and worst covers, examine the nuances of their collaborative composition process, consider their many musical influences, challenge the sentiment in "Yesterday," evaluate unreleased tracks and post-Beatles reunions, contemplate what went wrong between John and Paul in 1969, assess their solo careers and collaborations with others, compare underrated McCartney and Lennon albums, and ultimately extract broader lessons about creative partnerships.

Read a full transcript enhanced with helpful links, or watch the full video.

Recorded March 4th, 2025.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	Conversations with Tyler is produced by the Mercatus Center at George Mason University,
0:09.4	bridging the gap between academic ideas and real-world problems.
0:13.5	Learn more at Mercadis.org.
0:15.7	For a full transcript of every conversation enhanced with helpful links,
0:20.4	visit Conversationswithtyler.com.
0:25.2	Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Conversations with Tyler.
0:29.2	Today, I'm delighted to be chatting with Ian Leslie.
0:32.3	He has a new book out which I just loved.
0:34.6	It is called John and Paul, a love story and songs. And if you know anything
0:39.3	about Ian or about me, you will know that John and Paul Lennon and Paul McCartney, namely a big
0:45.5	part of the Beatles. Ian, in fact, has many other accomplishments and writings, but today is
0:51.6	not Generalist Day. Today is Beatles Day. So, Ian, welcome to the show.
0:56.7	Hello, Tyler. It is an honor to be here. I have so many questions. How is it that John got to be
1:03.1	such a great songwriter so quickly? If you look at the early songs, like if I fell, not a second time,
1:09.4	please please me, it won't be long, all I've got to do.
1:13.6	They seem to come from nowhere, so Paul builds up and eventually is doing hey Jude, golden
1:18.4	slumbers.
1:19.5	But John, who supposedly is lazy, just starts with incredible creations.
1:24.9	How does that happen?
1:26.7	It's a good question, and I don't have a definitive
1:28.9	answer, but perhaps it's connected to what you were saying. John was less methodical than Paul,
1:36.5	perhaps a little less analytical in the way he thought about songs and song structures,
	...

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