Hello and welcome to another episode of Iway with Jamila Jamil, a podcast that has absolutely no fucking time for shame.

Now, I'm re-releasing an episode. Don't turn off. It is an amazing episode. It's also a very important episode.

It's one of the best interviews I feel like I've ever gotten to experience because my guest is just such a riot.

Her name is Cindy Gallup and she's a legend and an extraordinary feminist, a very

emboldening and empowering woman who is, who has just such a creative and galvanizing mind.

And she's so funny and frank and brilliant on this episode. It was just such a fucking breath of fresh

air and so many people enjoyed it when I first put it out, but it was a while ago and I know a lot of you are new funny and frank and brilliant on this episode. It was just such a fucking breath of fresh air.

And so many people enjoyed it when I first put it out. But it was a while ago. And I know a lot of you are new to this podcast and I want you to hear it.

Not only because I think it's a very important subject, but also because I'm making an announcement.

I, Jameela Jemil, am entering into the world of porn. You heard me. But I'm not going to be on camera because I have no skills sexually. Otherwise, I'd love to. But I, no one wants to see that, unfortunately. But I would

like to be a part of helping Cindy Gallup, my guest, who has her own company called Make Love, Not

Porn, which is pro-porn, pro-sex, but pro-knowing

the difference, I would like to help her create more of the safe and diverse and respectful and

consensual pornography that she makes. And it's not just women who write to her saying,

thank you so much for this pornography. It's a lot of men who also find that the barbaric nature of so many mainstream porn sites are deeply off-putting and not what they're actually looking for.

People are looking to get turned on, not just shocked again and again.

So much of it is like shock culture that can help make a pornography video go viral and get attention

rather than just turn people on. And that leads to quite a problematic culture around sex,

especially when kids are looking at this stuff and teenagers. Pornography can be a big part of shaping someone's sexuality,

and I understand that there's many people who just want to get rid of it altogether. But I don't necessarily feel like that's the way. There are things that pornography does that can serve people and it can be a lovely part of someone's life and a very healthy part of someone's life. But is what we're watching actually healthy? Are the people being treated properly? Are we putting out a safe message? And that's

what make love, not porn, does so excellently. And so in order to further Cindy's mission to create

this kind of safe and radically inclusive space on social media for real world sex, she's raising

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