And so after a period of years, we came to this neither of our sons is a

Naitley transgender. I want to say this clearly at that, when we came to that

decision, I still didn't see it as a belief system. I was still in it. I was

still in it, but I had campaign stakingly, both of us had to the conclusion that

that our sons weren't actually trans, that it was something else for both of

them and we were clear in that. This belief system, the heart of it, says that

children should lead, and it's contradictory because once children say they are

the opposite sex, then adults lead them to gender affirmation, okay, to cross

that concretizing that cross-sex identity and medicalizing it. But what I

realized in those two plus years of anguish was that I had led my child into

it. And therefore I must lead him out of it. It is my responsibility. And like

a second later, I'm on my phone, I'm texting a friend and I'm like, we've

realized that our older son is not actually transgender, we're gonna be

rolling back the social transition. And I feel like I am leaving a cult. Because

that's what it felt like to me. He said to me, mama, this is your fault. You

changed my name. So imagine had we not, you know, had we not realized our mistake

and you go 10, 20 years into the future. Imagine that mama, this was your fault then.

Hello, and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Frances Foster. I'm Constantine Kisson. And

this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating

people. Well, I don't know how to convey to you how fascinating the guest we have

for you today. She's a mother, which will become relevant very quickly. Rose,

welcome to Trigonometry. Thank you so much for having me. Now I'll explain for

...