I Pledge My Grievance to the Flag: America is Not a Christian Nation - with Dr. Lee Camp

Voxology

Society & Culture, Philosophy, Religion & Spirituality

4.8 • 1.1K Ratings

🗓️ 18 May 2026

⏱️ 69 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Are you struggling to navigate the tension between your faith and the current political climate? Join Mike Erre and Tim Stafford as they sit down with theologian and author Dr. Lee Camp to discuss how Christians can faithfully bear witness in a world of political idolatry. This deep dive explores the history of the church, the myth of the Christian nation, and what it truly means to follow Jesus in a polarized society.

In this episode, the team discusses the radical roots of the Anabaptist movement and how the early church viewed its relationship with the state. Dr. Camp breaks down the crucial distinctions between healthy patriotism and the messianic claims of Christian nationalism. You will hear a challenging conversation about why the church is called to a life of persuasion rather than compulsion, and how we can engage in the public square without being malformed by bitterness or partisan tribalism.

From the ethics of voting to the historical development of just war theory, this interview provides a robust framework for anyone looking to deepen their theological understanding of politics. Whether you are feeling disillusioned by modern headlines or looking for a better way to love your neighbor, this conversation offers a refreshing perspective on the present and coming kingdom of God.

Chapters:

0:00 Intro

4:15 The malformation of news and media

8:20 Introducing guest Dr. Lee Camp

11:15 Exploring the No Small Endeavor project

14:30 Lee Camp's background and Anabaptist roots

18:15 The radical reformation and church-state power

23:10 Theological reasons for separating church and state

27:35 Christians participating in government

31:45 The ambiguity and ethics of voting

36:20 Biblical instructions in a modern democracy

39:50 Differentiating patriotism from nationalism

45:10 Is America a Christian nation?

50:25 The church's role in bearing witness

53:40 Just war theory vs. Christian pacifism

1:00:15 Resisting political idolatry with grace

1:05:30 Where to find Lee Camp's work

1:08:00 Outro and how to support Voxology

As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to hello@voxpodcast.com, and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram.

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Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford

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Transcript

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0:00.0	Hey everybody, Mike Erie, Tim Stafford.
0:14.0	Welcome to another riveting episode of the Voxology podcast.
0:17.3	Guys, have we got a doozy today?
0:20.3	Again, Tim Stafford has built a gold statue of
0:26.1	himself and i'm flying out to california to dedicate it i love i love that the pastor praying at the
0:34.9	thing had to announce via x this is not a golden calf.
0:40.0	Yeah.
0:40.5	And if that's true, then why are there religious people dedicating it?
0:44.5	If that's true, if it's just a neutral thing, then why are they religious leaders?
0:49.2	It's ridiculous.
0:50.4	I mean, it's so dope.
0:53.3	It is funny, though, like you look at like church history and some of this will even be talked about in the interview that you're about to hear.
0:59.7	But the fact that the golden statue and then last night he tweeted out his face on the $100 bill, it's like if anything has ever felt like Rome adopting the church.
1:09.7	Seriously, even his, even the idea of having a gladiator contest on
1:13.9	Yes, absolutely. The dude is doing the Nero playbook. I need all these public monuments. I need
1:20.7	my name on everything. Oh my gosh. Guess what? Guess what would happen with Nero? That boy was
1:26.3	erased from history. So, amen and amen.
1:30.0	Man.
1:30.5	Well, the timing of today's interview could not be better in light of all of that. Oh, I mean, I just, I bookmark all these things online to go, we got to talk about this. We got to talk about this. And it's just what's there to say? It's just the dumbest. At this point, at this point, if you still
1:50.0	support the current administration and you are a Jesus follower, I don't have a category for that.
1:57.6	I just don't. If you can't see it,
2:02.1	I don't know.
	...

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