I Asked a Former Trump Official to Justify This War

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

News, Government, Society & Culture

4.3 • 14.5K Ratings

🗓️ 10 March 2026

⏱️ 61 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

I’m opposed to this war. The Trump administration did not consult the American public or try to persuade Congress before authorizing the strikes on Iran. I don’t think the administration is prepared for what the strikes might unleash. But I wanted to try to understand President Trump’s decisions from the perspective of somebody much friendlier to his foreign policy. Nadia Schadlow is a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute and served as a deputy national security adviser during Trump’s first term. She led the drafting and publication of the 2017 National Security Strategy of the United States. In this conversation, Schadlow gives the conservative case for war with Iran, and for attacking without first building support in Congress or with the public. And I ask her how she squares Trump the candidate, who ran on a promise of not starting new wars, with the Trump of today, who’s deposed two heads of state since the start of 2026, and now says he won’t rule out boots on the ground in Iran. Is there a consistent worldview here? Or did Trump change? Mentioned: “National Security Strategy of the United States of America” War and the Art of Governance by Nadia Schadlow “The Globalist Delusion” by Nadia Schadlow “The Great Lie of War” with Ben Rhodes on “The Ezra Klein Show” Book Recommendations: America in the World by Robert B. Zoellick The Mystery of Capital by Hernando De Soto The Peacemaker by William Inboden Demon Copperhead by Barbara Kingsolver Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs. This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Rollin Hu, Kristin Lin, Emma Kehlbeck, Jack McCordick, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

Transcript

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0:00.0	The
0:07.0	The This is not the presidency many Americans thought they were voting for.
0:36.3	It is not the presidency that Donald Trump and the people around him claimed they would get.
0:43.0	I'm going to be the one that keeps you out of war.
0:45.7	I'm going to keep you out of war.
0:47.6	No wars.
0:48.5	I had no wars.
0:50.2	They said, he will start a war.
0:51.9	I'm not going to start a war.
0:52.7	I'm going to stop wars.
0:54.2	I think what was most surprising to me the last couple of days was seeing that at least one red line, many assumed Trump and his administration had no ground troops in Iran.
1:06.7	Even that was no longer holding. Trump gave this interview to the New York Post where he said, quote,
1:12.3	I don't have the yips with respect to boots on the ground.
1:15.3	Like every president says there will be no boots on the ground.
1:18.4	I don't say it.
1:19.7	I say, probably don't need them.
1:23.5	Probably don't need them.
1:26.1	I am obviously opposed to this war. I think there was not consultation
1:30.0	with the American public. I don't think there was consultation with Congress, obviously not with the
1:34.2	UN. I don't think they're prepared for what they might unleash. But I wanted to try to understand
1:41.3	this, not from my perspective, but from the perspective of somebody much friendlier to Donald Trump's foreign policy.
1:47.7	Somebody who has tried to think about what his doctrine and approach might mean, who even helped craft it in his first term.
	...

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