It's so very special and rare that any of our intelligence officers from any agency,

step forward, win and where they can, and start talking to us in very real terms.

Our sit-down today is with one such man, former FBI assistant director for counterintelligence.

That's the spy stuff.

Frank Vigluzzi, I'm honored to have him.

Before I play it, you should know we ran out of time at the end of our discussion, poor

Frank, I couldn't let him go.

So take out your pencil now and make a mental note for where to find Frank.

His book, The FBI Way, is like a self-help book from an FBI intel chief.

It really is.

It's amazing.

And he has a great podcast featuring discussions with active FBI agents titled The Bureau,

available wherever you find your shows.

Let's begin.

So I think just first, if we can hear you explain what counterintelligence is, what is it,

and why the FBI has an entire division dedicated to counterintelligence?

Sure.

So counterintelligence is the work that attempts to detect, defeat, and deter the operation

of foreign government agencies operating against U.S. interests.

It's spy-catching, it's spy-detecting.

The FBI has been designated as the primary counterintelligence agency of the United States

government by executive order.

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