You're listening to a podcast from Meaning of Life TV.

Hi, this is Robert Wright. One thing I like about the conversations I have here on the

Right show is that they help me think and write. They've informed the books and many of the

articles I've written over the past 15 years.

Now, lately, most of my writing has been for my newsletter, the non-zero newsletter.

It covers the kinds of topics you see on the show, politics, foreign policy, psychology,

philosophy, spirituality, how to avoid the apocalypse, things like that. So if you enjoy the

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Hi, Rutger.

Hi there. Thanks for having me.

My pleasure to have you. Let me introduce this. I'm Robert Wright. This is the right show

available on both streaming video and audio podcast. You are Rutger Bregman.

You are a Dutch.

I'm tempted to introduce you as a thought leader.

Because for one thing, and I've never introduced anybody that way before.

And I don't plan to make a habit of it.

But I think in your case, it's particularly apt.

You're well known for kind of helping to put universal basic income on the map.

In fact, you gave a famous TED talk about it, that as I understand it, Andrew Yang watched, got inspired by, and the rest is history.

He became this one-issue presidential candidate who's now well-known for

...