People would say, how can you invest in the debt of a company that's bankrupt?

And the answer is that even a bankrupt company has value.

And by the way, in the law, they call it the estate, like a dead person.

The estate has value.

And so, when everybody's throwing the debt out as if it has no value, if you can buy

it at a low price, maybe you can get a good return.

I'm Chris Hill, and that's Howard Marx, co-founder and co-chairman of Oak Tree Capital Management,

a leader in alternative investments, including the biggest distress debt fund in the world.

His memos are considered required reading by many investors, and his latest one describes

the widespread impacts of more normal interest rates.

Hillman caught up with Howard Marx to talk about why he likes sectors that other people

consider uninvestable.

His views on inflation, as well as winners and losers from the era of easy money.

You put out a letter and investing luminaries, you know, starting with Warren Buffett,

have said that when you put out a memo that he drops everything and reads it.

And I'm in the same boat.

And for you put out a memo in December, it was called C-Change.

And in C-Change, you describe what you see in 53 years of investing only the third, really,

the dawn of the third era of investing.

Now obviously, in that period of time, we've seen lots of fads, we've seen lots of trans,

but in this case, we're talking about something that is a total transformation.

And we have felt it too, but I wanted to take the opportunity to ask you, you know, really

...