Hello and welcome to the political orphanage when everybody else is screaming, we're plotting. Or maybe wood carving.

Take your pick. Today we're going on a field trip to Russia, to go deep into the twisted power structure of the Russian state,

to explore how Russian agit prop actually works, and into the very mind of Vladimir Putin himself.

By the end of this episode, you will be 12% more cynical, 30% more canny, and 8% slimmer. You're welcome.

One quick note.

Someone's phone goes off a couple of times in the interview,

so when that happens, don't freak out, it's not your phone. It's in the interview. So when that happens, don't freak out, it's not your phone, it's in the audio.

And if it's irritating, maybe this will help. Whenever you hear the bing noise, pretend I'm giving

you a big old toothy grin and winking.

This program is underwritten by its very own listeners who support it through

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slash Andrew Heaton. For the price of a cup of coffee a week you not only support a

program which values in-depth nuanced analysis and occasional comedians instead of angry bumper

stickers, you also get bonus episodes. While I don't want to threaten anybody, I don't want to threaten anybody. If I ever become global dictator you're

pretty much guaranteed a castle if you suck up to me now through Patreon. But if

you don't I'll remember.

So go to Patreon.com slash Andrew Heaton.

I am going to talk to a Russia expert today, Michael Weiss, who I have known for a few years and is

maybe the most well-informed person I know on foreign policy.

So you're an editor at large at the Daily Beast. know on foreign policy.

So you're an editor at large at the Daily Beast.

You were the director of special investigations

...