This is The Run Through. I'm Nicole Phelps. I'm joined today in the studio by my colleague Leah

Fay Cooper Vogue.com's digital style director and Robin Gavon, who is senior critic at large at the

Washington Post. She's the first ever fashion writer to win a Pulitzer Prize for criticism,

and she has a

brand new book out called Make It Ours, Crashing the Gates of Culture with Virgil Ablo. Welcome, Robin.

Thank you for having me. Thank you for being here, Leah.

Thank you for having me. Robin, you and I have known each other for a long time.

Yes, we have. I've read your book about the Battle of Versailles.

You've also written a book about Michelle Obama.

Why did you want to write this about Virgil Ablo?

Well, if you, and I'm sure you did read some of my criticism of Virgil when he was, most of when he was designing

women's wear for off white. I was pretty critical. And, you know, there were definitely

moments when I just did not think that his work for women like made sense in sort of the broader fashion context.

But at the same time, I was really just kind of dismayed about the way that people responded to him.

And his fans and his customers felt this intimacy that I thought was unlike the relationship that other designers had with their customers.

And it was really that tension.

After he passed away, I thought it would be really interesting to explore,

like what I was seeing as a critic and how I was responding simply to the close and how this whole other community of people was responding to the close and the fact that he made them.

Talk a little bit more about that response.

Yeah. I mean, when he died, I mean, it was shocking for the industry because he was only 41 years

old and people really didn't know that he had been as ill as he was.

And when he died, there was just this outpouring.

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