One of the things I talk a lot about is starting where the client is. And what I mean by that is

where are they on their interest level, their awareness level, their perception of the problem

that you solve. Now, this is critical in the very early stage of a conversation or prospecting.

Because as mammals, when we're in latent pain, when we haven't realized the pain yet,

what do we do?

We rationalize why we don't need what you're selling.

Instead of rationalizing why we do, which is active pain.

And this distinction is a big difference. Because if we think that they're already in active pain,

they will pull us into, well, tell us about

the product. Tell us about what you do. And it might be too early because what they're doing

is, okay, I'll hear you out, but what they're thinking is why they don't need you instead of why they do.

We're going to get into this in this interview today because what this guest is selling,

pretty much everyone thinks is a commodity. Boxes, foam, tape, packaging products. Now, what could be more of a commodity than that? We've had

cardboard and tape and foam and for a good century now, haven't we? There must be a million people

that sell this stuff. But is there somebody who sells what I need is going to help me solve my problem,

who's going to help me get the job done? That's what the client really cares about. They want

their personal win. They want their success story. They don't just want the cheapest.

We all think it's just the cheapest. But it's so much more than that. Now, what if you went to

college for this thing that could appear to be a commodity. Hmm.

I think you're going to get a lot out of this interview because in sales, we tend to get trapped in our prospect or our client's frame of the world.

Instead of us entering their frame and building it into our frame by using questions, by getting them to

see the things that they're missing by asking very well-crafted questions. Questions I help you

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