You're listening to How to Be a Better Human. I'm your host, Chris Duffy.

Our guest today is Michael Pollan, the acclaimed journalist and writer who changed the way

that millions of people thought about plants at food, with his books The Omnivore's Dilemma

and the Botany of Desire. But in recent years, Michael has become fascinated with the way that plants

can do more than just give us a delicious meal. They can also change the way we see the world, sometimes literally. Michael dove into psychedelics with his book, How to Change Your Mind. And now, he's looking at the question of consciousness itself. In his latest book, A World Appears. If there is anyone who can make us re-examine what it means to be human and what it means to be ourselves, it's Michael Pollan.

And to show you that these are issues and ideas that Michael has been thinking about for decades,

here is a clip from his 2008 TED talk, where he challenges the idea that we humans are the only conscious beings on Earth.

Looking at the world from other species points of view is a cure for the disease of human

self-importance.

You suddenly realize that consciousness which we value and we consider the crowning achievement

of nature, human consciousness, is really just another set of tools for getting along in the world.

And it's kind of natural that we would think it was the best tool,

but, you know, there's a comedian who said,

well, who's telling me that consciousness is so good and so important?

Well, consciousness.

So, when you look at the plants, you realize that there are

other tools, and they're just as interesting. Limeab beans. You know what the lima bean does when

it's attacked by spider mites? It releases this volatile chemical that goes out into the world

and summons another species of mite that comes in and attacks the spider mite,

defending the lima bee.

So what plants have, while we have consciousness, tool-making, language,

they have biochemistry.

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