meta_pixel
Tapesearch Logo
Log in
The Gray Area with Sean Illing

How to topple dictators and transform society (with Erica Chenoweth)

The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Vox Media Podcast Network

Politics, News, News Commentary, Philosophy, Society & Culture

4.511.1K Ratings

🗓️ 2 January 2020

⏱️ 48 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

The 2010s witnessed a sharp uptick in nonviolent resistance movements all across the globe. Over the course of the last decade we’ve seen record numbers of popular protests, grassroots campaigns, and civic demonstrations advancing causes that range from toppling dictatorial regimes to ending factory farming to advancing a Green New Deal.   So, I thought it would be fitting to kick off 2020 by bringing on Erica Chenoweth, a political scientist at Harvard specializing in nonviolent resistance. At the beginning of this decade Chenoweth co-authored Why Civil Resistance Works, a landmark study showing that nonviolent movements are twice as effective as violent ones. Since then, she has written dozens of papers on what factors make successful movements successful, why global protests are becoming more and more common, how social media has affected resistance movements and much more.  But Chenoweth doesn’t only study nonviolent movements from an academic perspective; she also advises nonviolent movement leaders around the world (including former EK Show guests Varshini Prakash of the Sunrise Movement and Wayne Hsiung of Direct Action Everywhere) to help them be as effective and strategic as possible in carrying out their goals. This on-the-ground experience combined with a big-picture, academic view of nonviolent resistance makes her perspective essential for understanding one of the most important phenomena of the last decade -- and, in all likelihood, the next one. References: "How social media helps dictators" by Erica Chenoweth "Drop Your Weapons: When and Why Civil Resistance Works" by Erica Chenoweth Book recommendations: These Truths by Jill Lepore Nonviolence: The History of a Dangerous Idea by Mark Kurlansky From #BlackLivesMatter to Black Liberation by Keenga-Yamahtta Taylor If you enjoyed this podcast, you may also like: Varshini Prakash on the Sunrise Movement's plan to save humanity When doing the right thing makes you a criminal (with Wayne Hsiung) My book is available for pre-order! You can find it at www.EzraKlein.com. Want to contact the show? Reach out at ezrakleinshow@vox.com You can subscribe to Ezra's new podcast Impeachment, explained on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Overcast, Pocket Casts, or your favorite podcast app. Credits: Producer and Editor - Jeff Geld Engineer- Cynthia Gil Researcher - Roge Karma Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

The truth is, like you never know when your research is going to be really important to people

0:05.3

and because of that, we have to think through a lot of our own kind of commitments and

0:09.4

ethical obligations before we even get started.

0:24.9

Hello, welcome to the Clanchon, the Box Media Podcast Network.

0:27.5

If you've been listening for a while, you've heard somebody mentioned a bunch of different

0:31.6

episodes named Erica Chenoweth.

0:33.2

She was in the Varshani Prakash episode about the sunrise movement in the Wayne Shung episode

0:37.6

about direct action everywhere and animal rights movements to name just two of them.

0:42.4

But Erica Chenoweth is a professor at Harvard.

0:44.3

She studies resistance movements, both violent and nonviolent.

0:49.9

She's particularly known for books she wrote with Maria Stefan called Why Civil Resistance

0:53.3

Works, the strategic logic of nonviolent conflict.

0:56.2

She's written a bunch of books, she's gotten a new one coming.

0:58.7

Her work has been definitional in this space.

1:01.8

She's showing along with co-authors that nonviolent movements tend to work about twice as often.

1:06.9

As violent movements, she's done a lot of work trying to understand why different movements

1:11.6

work, why they don't, when they work, how they work, what they're targeting, what their

1:14.9

component parts are.

1:16.4

So she's not only somebody who's studied it from the macro picture, but particularly

1:19.1

in recent years, she's become somebody sought after to advise and consult and talk with

1:23.7

the people inside these movements.

1:25.2

So she also is a ground level view of them at a time when we're at a really remarkable

...

Please login to see the full transcript.

Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Vox Media Podcast Network, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.

Generated transcripts are the property of Vox Media Podcast Network and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.

Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.