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It's like you reach a point in your adult life when you go after the things that you're good at and you pursue the interests you love, you end up in these environments where you can have a life where most of the folks around you

consistently tell you, you're doing a good job.

You know, the work that I do now I've done long enough that I work with people who think I'm good at it.

And that feels great.

And the idea of doing things in my life that won't get me an add-a-boy,

I find that intimidating. I find it intimidating. I'm used to getting treats and being told

I'm pretty and good.

Welcome to how to. I'm Carvel Wallace. If you regularly press play on how to, you know that we invite listeners on the show to talk through all kinds of situations with experts who have advice to share. And usually we keep those listeners anonymous. But today's listener could not be kept anonymous because his voice is one you might instantly recognize.

My name is Sam Sanders. I'm a journalist and podcaster and quite possibly the world's most hesitant homeowner. Yeah. Like many of you, I know that voice from when Sam Sanders worked for NPR, first as a reporter,

and then as the host of the NPR show, It's Been a Minute.

And then I listen to him on the podcast vibe check.

Now, these days, I catch him on the KCRW radio show and podcast, The Sam Sanders Show,

...