My name is Stan. I'm at. Nice to meet you. So you took up photography where? I've always loved

photography but I turn it into earning a living at 60. I enrolled on a day course.

Well college. I loved going to college. It's good you can retry. I'm enrolled on the day course. But college?

I loved going to college.

It's good you can retrain and do something.

Yeah, yeah.

Let's talk about working, learning, saving and making the most of living longer.

Phoenix Group is the UK's largest long-term savings and retirement business.

Search Phoenix Group living longer.

Pets brings so much joy.

From those happy greetings at the door to the warm cuddles on the sofa

so give a little love back with dental life from Purina a range of delicious chues made for dogs and tasty snacks for cats that help clean and support your pets, teeth and gums, essential for their overall well-being and a happy, healthy life. They give you plenty of smiles so

look after theirs with dental life. Pick up dental life in the pet food aisle. Hello and welcome to the bunker daily I'm Ahir Shah. Through the dissolution of empires and the successes of some secessionist movements,

the number of states in the world has shot from around 50 in the 19th century

to almost 200 in the present day. But how should the aspiring secessionist or the person dreaming of becoming the parent of a new nation actually go about it?

Joining me to discuss this is Matt Kvortrup, professor of political science at Coventry University and the author of the new book I want to break free a practical guide to making a new country.

Matt, welcome to the bunker. Thank you, it's a great country. Matt, welcome to the bucker.

Thank you, it's a great honor.

What brought you to tell this story in the first place?

What is your practical experience of helping found new states?

Well, my practical experience is that when I was a graduate student in the last, well, millennium

rather, I was writing a doctoral thesis about referendums on independence.

...