How to solve the climate crisis in 60-90 minutes

Outside/In

NHPR

Society & Culture, Documentary, Natural Sciences, Nature, Science

4.7 • 1.5K Ratings

🗓️ 24 September 2025

⏱️ 28 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

When designer Matt Leacock decided to make a board game about climate action, he knew he wanted to make it – first and foremost – fun to play. “If we sold anything as an educational game… people would run screaming and running for the hills,” he told us. But can simulating the climate crisis really make for a good Friday night with your friends? What are the limits to gamifying social issues as complex as global warming? In this episode, we speak with Matt about what it took to design an entertaining game about one of the most challenging topics of our time, and enlist a few friends to playtest his game: “Daybreak.” Featuring Matt Leacock, with appearances from NHPR’s Marina Henke, Nick Capodice and Hannah McCarthy. This episode was produced by Taylor Quimby. For a full list of credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org SUPPORT To share your questions and feedback with Outside/In, call the show’s hotline and leave us a voicemail. The number is 1-844-GO-OTTER. No question is too serious or too silly. Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. Subscribe to our newsletter (it’s free!). Follow Outside/In on Instagram and BlueSky, or join our private discussion group on Facebook. LINKS Read game designer Matt Leacock’s 2020 NYT opinion piece about his game, Pandemic, and what it says about social cooperation during an actual pandemic. One of Daybreak’s inspirations was “The 100% Solution” by Solomon Goldstein-Rose. Here’s his TED Talk about building a new global electricity system. For more insight into how Daybreak was made, check out Matt and co-designer Matteo Menapace’s design diaries. A climate scientist/board gamer’s break down of the science and gameplay of Daybreak Listen to Civics 101’s great episode on civics-centered board games. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	This is Outside In, a show where curiosity and the natural world collide.
0:04.8	I'm Nate Hedgy.
0:05.9	I think we were very newly married, or just before we were married, Donna played a lot of board games with me, and I tried a lot out with her, and we determined that there are certain games we needed to avoid.
0:18.6	This is board game designer Matt Leacock.
0:21.2	He's on the quiet side.
0:22.3	He loves a nice button up.
0:24.2	And you get the impression that he's not big on confrontation.
0:28.2	But anybody who's played a game of Monopoly knows.
0:32.2	Board games can be super competitive.
0:35.0	When you play games, you're supposed to be in this kind of like, they call it a magic circle,
0:38.3	where the stuff within the game only matters to the game
0:41.5	and not supposed to bleed out into real life.
0:44.7	But we found that that was not the case.
0:47.5	In some games, competition would become so fierce.
0:50.7	You know, emotions would get heightened, let's say.
0:54.2	Yeah, any table flipping? That's producer and board game aficionado. fears, you know, emotions would get heightened, let's say. Yeah.
0:54.7	Any table flipping?
0:56.2	That's producer and board game aficionado, Taylor Quimby.
0:59.2	No, it didn't flip any tables, but sometimes you get that cold stare.
1:06.6	So in the early days of his marriage, Matt found a different genre of game to play with
1:11.8	Donna.
1:13.1	Games were, instead of facing off, they were on the same side of the table.
	...

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