Welcome to Betrayal Trauma Recovery, BTR.org. I'm Anne. I'm sure you remember what it was like when you were searching for help, maybe for your husband, hoping to find the right program or therapist. That's why I started podcasting. I supported my husband through seven years of pornography addiction recovery and not one therapist during that time told me I was experiencing emotional

and psychological abuse and sexual coercion. I didn't want any other woman on the planet to be in

the dark. If you're like the majority of my listeners, you're experiencing the type of abuse that's

invisible and difficult to wrap your head around. Your husband is using porn or having

affairs or lying to you, and you're getting the same bad advice about how to improve communication

or your relationship. If you need support from women who totally understand, check out our daily

group session schedule at BTR.org slash group. We'd love to see you in a session today. One simple, anonymous way to help spread the word

is to click, follow, or subscribe to the Betrayal Trauma Recovery podcast on your favorite

podcasting app. While you're there, every five-star rating helps make this podcast more visible

and will help save other women from getting the wrong kind of help, like a couple

program that will make this type of abuse worse.

For those of you who follow or subscribe to this podcast, thank you so much.

Your support means so much to me.

I have a really special guest on the podcast today.

We're going to call her because she wanted to be called Vanelope after Vanelope von

Schwartz from Rocket Ralph. So we're going to call her Vanelopee or Penny for short and she is my

eight-year-old daughter. Welcome Penny. Hi. I want to teach you how to say no thank you.

So, like, if someone that is abusive, like, says, do the dishes or, like, do everything,

then you could just say, no, thank you.

So Penny is a very good example.

She started doing this on her own.

Basically, if somebody asks her something that she doesn't want to do, she very politely and

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