I called up Barton Gellman over at the Brennan Center

because for the last few days, I've wanted someone to give me a roadmap for preserving democracy.

That seems a little grand when I say it like that.

But then again, Bart was eager to give me a pep talk.

So I was on the line with the right guy.

I just want to say to your listeners what I've said to my colleagues,

there is never going to be a more important time in your life

to be working on behalf of the democratic values that you hold dear.

If you've been involved in public life in any way because you cared about doing the right thing,

now's not the time to retreat.

Now's the time to stand up strong for those values because there's never been a time when they were more under threat.

Bart is a journalist. He's won a Pulitzer Prize.

The last time I had him on, he described himself as a catastrophe

correspondent. But his work has shifted over the last year or so to trying to prevent catastrophe.

Because even before Donald Trump was reelected, Bart had started getting together with politicians and civil

society leaders to try to figure out how to respond if Trump won office again. Right now, this

bunch is kind of in the wilderness. Bart just spoke with a pollster who said she was getting out

of politics altogether.

Then there was the constitutional litigator he got on the line.

And she said in passing that she is sort of, you know, working on the logistics of her move.

And I said, move.

And she said she feels that she's going to have to move overseas.

...