Today on the Crossway podcast, we're honored to share a special conversation with Dr. John

MacArthur, the pastor, teacher, and faithful servant of Christ who went home to be with the Lord

just two days ago. This interview was originally recorded in 2019, but in light of his passing,

we wanted to revisit it as a way

to remember and give thanks for his decades of faithful ministry. In it, Dr. MacArthur reflects on

the challenges and joys of pastoral life, offering biblical wisdom on what it takes to persevere

for the long haul in ministry. Whether you've been blessed by his preaching, his writing, or his leadership over the years,

we pray that this conversation reminds you of the enduring power of God's Word and the

beauty of a life live for Christ.

Let's get started.

Well, Pastor MacArthur, thank you so much for joining me on the Crossway podcast today.

Well, it's a pleasure to be with you. It's been a wonderful partnership we've had through the years with Crossway folks, and we certainly believe in your mission. So you first came to Grace Community Church in 1969, and that's 50 years ago, and you still

serve there today. Do you remember the first sermon that you preached from that pulpit and what

text it was on? Yeah, it's a very vivid memory of mine. I've been reminded of it many, many

times through the years. I preach on Matthew

chapter 7, basically verses 13 down to the end of the chapter, and it's focused directly on the text

that many will say to me, Lord, Lord, haven't we done this and that in your name? And then I will say to them,

depart from me, I never knew you, you workers of iniquity. And I actually titled the message

playing church. It was a little bit of over-the-top youth that drove me that hard at that issue.

But I grew up in the church. I grew up with a grandfather

who was a pastor, a father who was a pastor, and just about all their friends were in pastoral

ministry. And it was pretty clear to me that churches were full of unconverted people. Not unlike

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