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There have been judges in every civilization that I know of.

They're always called judges but I mean they could be elders or they could be wise people,

but there's a role for this kind of person.

And there is, I think what you hope for from that kind of person is you want

want equanimity you want wisdom you want an ability to hear people to be

receptive and empathetic and compassionate.

When people talk about justice, I think they're implicitly usually kind of looking for those kinds of qualities.

I think there's hope there because I think there is a strong

residue of goodwill and people no matter how dark the times get, people want to be

their best selves and do good things and I think a lot of judges aspire for that and so that does make me hopeful

you know and there's a whole side that doesn't make me hopeful there's a whole

side that I worry about and it'll just kind of become mechanical and judges will become, you know, agents of repressive

...