If most of us have dreamed about doing something great with our lives, and very few of us actually make it happen, we can usually come up with reasons why.

We lack the kind of talent that gets rewarded with fame,

or maybe we didn't get the sort of education likely to deliver fortune.

Or maybe the problem is that we aspire to the wrong things.

From KERA in Dallas, this is think.

I'm Chris Boyd.

Regardless of whatever material rewards our work delivers, the most

satisfying careers tend to be the ones that make the world better. And my guest believes that

many more of us could have those rewards if we taste purpose rather than profit. Rutger

Bregman is a historian and co-founder of the School for Moral Ambition. His book is called

Moral Ambition. Stop wasting your talent and start making a difference. Rutger, welcome to think.

Thanks so much for having me. What is moral ambition exactly?

Moral ambition is the desire to make this world a wildly better place.

I think it's funny that often when we talk about our ideals or when we do something good,

people tend to say, yeah, let's make the world a little bit better.

But when I look at the world today, I see pretty big problems.

So it seems to me that we shouldn't strive for our moral minimum

to just do the bare minimum of what's required of us. No, we should push for the moral

maximum. That's really what the world needs today. So the most worthy careers are ones you

describe as both ambitious and idealistic. And the dividend they pay is never having the sense

that our job is pointless? A lot of people feel like, you know, they have to earn a living,

but their job is pointless. Yeah. That's totally understandable. It's one of the great tragedies

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