I would like to say the smartest thing this next guest has ever done is throw me out of graduate school because that did happen a long time ago he threw me out of graduate school I just wasn't a good student and I even found his class was too hard for me

But that's not the smartest thing he's ever done.

He's gone on to do many other very smart things.

He started many companies.

He's helped many companies.

Merrick First, along with his co-authors,

Matt Chainoff, Daniel Saba, Mark Weggman,

they have studied almost from a formulaic perspective,

what is innovation and what they came up with is an

astounding way to think about anything really like I have used this concept

for years as America and I have discussed these concepts over the years,

now he's written a book along with his co-authors,

Matt Chainoff, Daniel Sabah, Mark Webbin,

the heart of innovation, a field guide for navigating to authentic demand.

And it's really fascinating, it really opened my eyes about a common question. You have an idea, how do you know if it's a good idea or a bad idea?

The answer is really, really difficult and in the heart of innovation and in this

podcast we try to get to the bottom of it. Great book and a really enjoyable

conversation. I hope you all enjoy it. This isn't your average business podcast and he's not your average host.

This is the James Altiger show. So Merrick, the heart of innovation.

By the way, we've been talking for two hours before starting this podcast.

We just couldn't shut down the conversation.

And you brought up the point that we've known each other how long have we actually known each other?

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