How to Fight the Populists – Liam Byrne MP on ending the Age of Rage

The Bunker – News without the nonsense

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News, Society & Culture, Politics, Government

4.6 • 1K Ratings

🗓️ 21 April 2026

⏱️ 29 minutes

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Summary

The far-right “Unite The Kingdom” march in London in September 2025 was an unprecedented display of populist, xenophobic anger. It shocked the country – but it didn’t surprise Liam Byrne, the Labour MP and former minister who dissects the Age of Rage in his book, Why Populists Are Winning – And How To Beat Them. He talks to Zoe Grünewald about how mainstream politics took away ordinary people’s certainties and left them prey to unscrupulous, well-funded demagogues – and what we need to do to turn back the populist tide. NB This episode was recorded before the defeat of Viktor Orbán in Hungary. • Buy Why Populists Are Winning through our affiliate bookshop and you’ll help fund the podcast by earning us a small commission for every sale. Bookshop.org’s fees help support independent bookshops too. www.patreon.com/bunkercast Written and presented by Zoë Grünewald. Producer: Liam Tait. Audio production: Tom Taylor. Music by Kenny Dickinson. Artwork by James Parrett. Managing Editor: Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor: Andrew Harrison. THE BUNKER is a Podmasters Production. www.podmasters.co.uk Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	We're very glad to have support for advertisers on our podcasts, but we know that ads are not everyone's cup of tea.
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0:11.0	Follow the link in the show notes to find out more.
0:29.0	Welcome to The Bunker News Without the Nonsense. I'm Zoe Greenewald. Populism isn't supposed to keep winning.
0:34.0	It's meant to flare up, burn out and collapse under the weight of its own broken promises.
0:39.4	And yet, here we are. Populists now lead one quarter of the world's democracies.
0:44.8	Trump seems to be doing his utmost to change the world for the worst, and it feels like Nigel Farage is made out of Teflon. Across Europe, the far right isn't just knocking at the door. It's sat
0:50.3	inside with its feet up. So either voters have all lost their minds, or politicians,
0:55.7	media bots and those who still believe in the status quo are genuinely misunderstanding what's
1:00.2	going on, because maybe focusing on big personalities or culture wars isn't quite right. Maybe
1:05.9	it's about something deeper, a loss of trust, a feeling that the system doesn't work,
1:12.5	and a politics fue fueled by anger.
1:19.0	Which raises a tricky question. If populism is rooted in genuine grievance, why does it so often lead to worse outcomes? And more importantly, what does it actually take to beat it?
1:24.7	I'm joined today by former new Labour Minister, Labour MP, and author of
1:28.7	why populists are winning and how to beat them, Liam Byrne. Liam, welcome to the bunker.
1:33.8	Thanks for having me on. Liam, you describe this as an age of rage. Tell us about that.
1:39.5	What's actually driving this anger and why do you think it feels more potent now than it did in the past?
1:46.2	Well, sorry, thanks for having me on. This is a brilliant show that you're running and I'm a long-standing fan.
1:52.0	So ultimately, at the core of this is democracy's broken promise. So if you think back before the great
1:58.4	financial crash, living standards were growing a fairly healthy clip.
2:02.6	You could basically expect your living standards to double over your lifetime.
2:06.2	About every 44 years, living standards would double.
	...

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