It's hard to be sad in a world where there are apps and podcasts and books upon books about

like how to be happier, how to be grateful, how to be, and those are all wonderful things.

But you can't truly be happy and you can't truly be grateful if you're not also given the

space to feel the uglier things and one of those is anger and one of those is grief and sadness.

Hey y'all and welcome to a lady like the show that finds out what happens when women break the rules.

I'm Caroline, I'm Kristen, and Caroline, I don't think it's a stretch to say that women's anger is very

entrenched in the Trump era. I mean like our unleady-like theme song says, we've had enough.

Yeah we have, but all this cheerleading for female rage also got us wondering, why aren't we

as loud about claiming our sadness space too? And that's why Caroline, you talked to two women

for this episode who know a thing or three about getting comfortable with those frankly

uncomfy feelings, whether we're dealing with them personally or bearing witness to other women's

sadness, both of which can be tough to navigate. Yeah I mean it's not easy right? Just ask author

and podcast host Nora McInerney, that's the voice that y'all heard at the top of the show.

I'm just a person who exists in this weird intersection of sad things and humor and I've just become

kind of a lightning rod for unusual sad stories even though I mean sad stories really are not

that unusual at all. Today Nora's going to share the extraordinary path to that weird intersection

and why she's not looking for a happy ending. Then we're heading to the therapist's couch

metaphorically speaking. Has whiteness defined what sadness and depression supposedly look like?

Hmm okay all right we're gonna go there. Yeah so Dr. Joy Harden Bradford founded therapy for

black girls. She's gonna give us some expert advice on how to deal with sad feels, whether they

belong to us or our friends and help us check some white girl tears privilege. All to find out

if stop telling women to smile has become a sort of feminist slogan can we start telling women it's

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