When you start to believe that people are unchangeable, you're actually just dooming your own movement.

If you really feel like the kind of political values you hold, powerful or meaningful, would make the society better. You should be profoundly

optimistic about the ability of those values to conquer all kinds of

communities and all kinds of moral frames.

So is it even possible to have genuinely open conversation that holds the potential

to persuade someone to your point of view anymore, or have we entered a post-persuasion state and if so is there

a way to change that for the good as we all have navigated the last years of increasing conflict, deep identity level

disagreement. Maybe you've noticed an increasing culture of futility-driven

apathy. Social, religious, political, and other views are increasingly seen as

unchangeable. So why even bother?

Increasingly, people are just writing off anyone who doesn't automatically

see the world the way they do. It's just not worth the effort they believe. The problem is

this assumption is not only wrong but when we refuse to give others and even

ourselves permission to ask questions, change minds, including our mind, or think differently than their current

label or belief leads with.

Well, who really wins in either scenario?

Nobody.

This apathy only deepens or reinforces divides, behaviors and at scale policies that may well cause large-scale harm.

So how do we break through?

How do we move people back into conversation and set the table for openness and maybe

even persuasion to a different set of ideas, beliefs, and actions?

Our guest today, Anon Ghiradaradas,

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