Hey, what's up everyone? How you doing Ben Kisilear? Hey, you know, Henry Zabrowski.

Yes. Thank you all so much for giving door Patreon without you were absolutely nothing.

Today, we are honored to be with an absolute icon. It's a legend.

Extra crime. Yes. Legend of true crime.

Dr. Catherine Ramseland. Thank you so much for being here. I know you wrote how to catch a killer hunting and capturing the world's most

notorious serial killers along with 68 other books. It's a lot. It's incredible.

It is. So what I love it. I'm so happy to have all the opportunities.

But today, we wanted to talk about, because you know that right now we have out a brand new series

that I've been working on called BTK Confession of a serial killer. And I watched the first episode of it.

And I can then say is a group of people that just also wrote a book on serial killers that like it's showing BTK in a way

that I have never seen him before and an approach to him in a way that's really, really interesting.

A loving kind approach sympathetic almost. I mean, Dr. Ramseland, you really do.

But you figured out a way to talk to probably one of the biggest villains in American history.

Yeah, it took a while. I mean, that's, I don't think I've put more time into any book than that one.

And that took us about five years.

Can you go into that process a little bit about reaching out to somebody like Dennis Radar,

a bind torture kill, a man who's sonatorious. How did that process even come around?

Well, the weird, it wasn't my idea.

You weren't like, oh, I hope Dennis won.

No, yeah, I wish upon a star every night that BTK shows up in my window and he did.

It was an odd convergence of things.

I was writing a book that looked back over 100 years on mental health experts

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