This is the 10% Happier Podcast. I'm Dan Harris.

Hello, everybody. If you are tired of the venom, the preening, the predatory listening

that is so common on all sides of our various cultural divides right now, this episode is for you.

If you're looking for better ways to deal with people with whom you disagree, ditto, you're going to

like this one. And if you want to be an engaged citizen without losing your mind, you have come to

the right place. My guest is the mighty Loretta Ross, who describes herself as a radical black feminist, activist, and public intellectual.

She's a visiting associate professor at Smith College, and she also teaches an online course that caught our eye.

It's called Calling In the Calling Out culture.

She believes that calling out, which is quite common on social

media and pretty much everywhere else these days, is adding way too much toxicity to the discourse

and alienating people who might otherwise be allies. Instead, she believes in calling in,

which steadfastly insists on a large measure of grace and rejects the impulse to dehumanize.

As you will hear in the course of this interview, Loretta is a long time leftist, but no matter where you stand politically, she is modeling a compelling mode of engagement that is insistently open-minded and large-hearted.

This is an approach that she has personally put to the test as a black woman who has worked with

white supremacists and as a rape survivor who has worked with incarcerated rapists.

In other words, this is an incredible person you're about to hear from.

Two notes before we dive in.

First, since we posted this interview the first time, Loretta has been awarded a

2002 MacArthur Genius Fellowship, which is amazing.

Congratulations to you, Loretta.

Second, we recorded this interview about a week after the attack on the U.S. Capitol

building on January 6th.

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