Carole Robin spent over 20 years teaching the Stanford Graduate School of Business course Interpersonal Dynamics, affectionately known as “Touchy Feely.” After leaving Stanford, she founded a nonprofit called Leaders in Tech, which applies the Touchy Feely principles to help Silicon Valley executives build their leadership and interpersonal skills. Carole co-authored the popular book Connect: Building Exceptional Relationships with Family, Friends, and Colleagues, which shares key insights from her decades of teaching these courses. In our conversation, we discuss:

• The benefits of building robust relationships, in life and work

• The 15% rule, and how it will help you build better relationships

• The power of vulnerability

• Examples of how to practice vulnerability

• Why mental models you build early in life hold you back later

• The “three realities” and “the net”

• The art of inquiry

• Practical tips for avoiding defensiveness when getting feedback

• The impact of long Covid on Carole’s life

—

Brought to you by:

• Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments

• CommandBar—AI-powered user assistance for modern products and impatient users

• The a16z Podcast—Featuring conversations with the founders and technologists shaping our future

—

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/build-robust-relationships-carole-robin

—

Where to find Carole Robin:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carole-robin/

• Email: [email protected]

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Carole’s background

(05:17) The importance of building robust relationships

(10:20) The “Touchy Feely” course at Stanford

(13:29) An example of the in-class experience

(17:19) Leaders in Tech: developing interpersonal competence

(21:36) Progressive disclosure and the 15% rule

(24:28) Appropriate disclosure

(26:52) The power of vulnerability

(34:57) Admitting mistakes and sharing feelings

(37:08) Understanding mental models

(42:57) The “three realities” framework

(53:52) The power of feedback and personal change

(58:47) The art of inquiry

(01:03:27) How to get better at giving feedback

(01:07:47) Exercises and continued learning

(01:10:49) “Advice hinders relationships”

(01:16:49) Failure corner: AFOG

(01:20:30) Takeaways

(01:21:51) Lessons from long Covid

—

Referenced:

• How to Build Better Relationships: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/how-build-better-relationships

• Connect: Building Exceptional Relationships with Family, Friends, and Colleagues: https://www.amazon.com/Connect-Building-Exceptional-Relationships-Colleagues-ebook/dp/B0894279WZ

• Leaders in Tech: https://leadersintech.org/

• Leaders in Tech Fellows: https://leadersintech.org/learnaboutfellows

• Steve Jobs: https://www.forbes.com/profile/steve-jobs/

• Sheryl Sandberg on X: https://twitter.com/sherylsandberg

• Ursula Burns: https://www.forbes.com/profile/ursula-burns/

• Application for Leaders in Tech: https://leadersintech.org/programs-and-applications

• Vygotsky’s Zone of Proximal Development and Scaffolding Theory: https://www.simplypsychology.org/zone-of-proximal-development.html

• The Best Leaders Aren’t Afraid to Be Vulnerable: https://hbr.org/2022/07/the-best-leaders-arent-afraid-of-being-vulnerable

• The Surprising Benefits of Admitting Mistakes: 5 Ways to Build Intellectual Humility: https://www.forbes.com/sites/tracybrower/2021/12/29/the-surprising-benefits-of-admitting-mistakes-5-ways-to-build-intellectual-humility/

• How to Build Conflict Skills—The Pinch/Crunch Model: https://www.forbes.com/sites/hannahart/2023/12/15/how-to-build-conflict-skills-the-pinchcrunch-model/

• Slides mentioned (The Three Realities Framework | The 15% Rule | Feedback Guidelines): https://pen-name.notion.site/Carole-Robin-4-25-5d47d38a620e4636966d31f4bf3c7d00?pvs=4

• Mindset: The New Psychology of Success: https://www.amazon.com/Mindset-Psychology-Carol-S-Dweck/dp/0345472322

• Management Time: Who’s Got the Monkey?: https://hbr.org/1999/11/management-time-whos-got-the-monkey

• Long COVID: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-022-00846-2

• Leadership, acceptance, and self-management: my journey with long COVID: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/leadership-acceptance-self-management-my-journey-long-carole-robin/

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe