So we have an acronym internally at Vainer called SOC, strategic organic content.

Do you actually know how to make creative for Pinterest versus LinkedIn versus YouTube shorts

versus Tik-Toc and that is creative strategy and

and understanding attention and culture at a PhD level.

Attention is the number one asset.

I can't imagine being a common sense human being

and not understanding that brand is built on social.

I genuinely mean that.

I mean, I don't, you know, you'd have to be so subconsciously

religious about what you were taught in college about how brands are built to be

anyone that doesn't see it. And so my philosophy is why would you spend money on something

if you can spend less money to achieve the same goal?

So I love when people are like,

Gary, TV works for me.

I'm like you spent $ million dollars on that campaign.

I'm like it should work. I'm like the question is did you spend six million dollars on

creative and media in

in Tik-Tok YouTube, Facebook, Pinterest, influencers,

podcast, like YouTube, like what would happen if you

actually spent that same money perfectly in the contemporary environments.

And so, you know, it's weird because I've been on this journey for 15 years and I was incredibly empathetic the first seven years because I

knew people didn't know but I literally have dinners now with decision makers

...