This is Paul Adamson and welcome to In Conversation, the regular podcast of my online magazine InCompass.

I chat informally with personalities from a wide variety of backgrounds on a wide variety of subjects.

If you like this podcast, you can go to the magazine's website, Encompass-Europe.com,

or any of the main platforms for free access to all the podcasts to date. I hope you enjoy this

conversation. My guest is Ian Dunt.

Ian Dunt is a columnist at the I-newspaper, an author.

His latest book, How to Be a Liberal, has just come out in paperback.

Welcome to the podcast, Ian.

Oh, thank you.

And congratulations on getting to our paperback edition.

And this day and age, that in itself is quite an achievement.

Well, just to tell the listeners, in paperback edition, at least it is 500 pages long your new book.

So I'm not sure we can do justice to every single page in the next 25 minutes.

But let's start with what the book's about.

It tells the stories you say of liberalism from its birth in the age of science

to its new status as a resistance movement against nationalism.

And you start by pointing out the six lives of nationalism.

Again, for the benefit of everybody listening,

what are these six lives of nationalism?

Oh, no. I feel like I'm on a test for a book that I wrote. I'm not entirely sure I could

remember all six. I mean, the basic idea came where I sort of felt we keep on using this word

liberal. And I think we started using it more after 2016

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