Welcome to Current Affairs. My name is Nathan Robinson. I am the editor in chief of Current Affairs magazine.

My guest today is Aditol Levin. He is a senior fellow at the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft.

He is the author of the book Ukraine and Russia, among other books. He's also a contributor to The Guardian, the nation, other publications, where he specializes in, or has in at least recent months, an analysis of the war in Ukraine.

Anato Levin, thank you so much for joining us today on current affairs.

Here's what I want to start with.

Hi.

What do you think are some of the basic facts that, or if you could tell Americans specifically,

things that are left out of the mainstream discourse on the war in Ukraine.

What do you think some of the most important things to understand about this conflict are that are sort of left out of the discussion that you sort of wish Americans could understand?

Where to start?

Well, where to begin?

I mean, I suppose, firstly, that without in any way justifying the invasion of Ukraine,

which obviously was totally illegal, totally wrong and disastrous. Hans Morgantau,

the great international relations expert, said that one of the fundamental duties of a statesman

was to cultivate the ability through study, to put yourself in the shoes of your opposite numbers.

He called it strategic empathy, not in order necessarily to agree with them or sympathise with

them, but to understand what they saw as their country's vital interests in order, therefore,

to be able to do two things. One is to predict how they would behave in

certain circumstances, and secondly, to work out, if those are their vital interests, what are our

vital interests and where can we compromise? So I think what was never fully appreciated in America,

despite the fact that four, four former US ambassadors to Moscow told Americans about

this, George Kennan, Tom Pickering, Jack Matlock, and the president head of the CIA, William Burns,

...