Welcome to Pushback. I'm Aaron Mate.

Joining me is Antonio Giustozy.

He is a senior research fellow at the Royal United Services Institute and visiting professor

at King's College London.

His books include the Islamic State in Corazon and the Taliban at war. Professor Justozy, welcome to pushback.

Thank you.

I want to start with how this war was won by the Taliban.

How did the Taliban go from being defeated or ousted in the early months of the U.S. war in Afghanistan to victory without any Air Force 20

years later?

I think it was a mixed for two main factors. The incompetence of the enemies and the

fact that the Taliban were able to evolve during the previous 20 years, you know, they face very difficult conditions

or operating, in particular, as you mentioned, the very strong air superiority of the enemy.

According to the fact that the Americans pulled out, and with that also their, you know,

air support for the Alkin Security forces was a major contributing factor,

not only because the Taliban felt emboldened, but also because it turned out the Afghan army was not able to fight or willing to fight without stronger cover.

And the Americans tried to do something remotely,

especially the peak of their resurgence of their support

was during the battle of Lashkarga

a few days before the fall of Kabul.

But that turned out not to be enough.

And there was a major factor.

Basically, the Afghan army was not, you know, lost completely the will to fight.

...