They have a very effective insurgency doctrine, which is really understudied.

The collapse of the Iraqi security forces, which ISIS had a lot to do with, over years of insurgency,

of bleeding them dry, of really creating fear and terror through their insurgency campaign.

In many respects, I think Zakawi epitomizes that, you know, on the outside, this

stuggish, brutal kind of guy. But then when you see his, you read his writing and you listen to his kind of

speeches and he's very reflective on the strategic context within which he was operating.

Hey, welcome back to the Modern War Institute podcast. I'm John Amble, editorial director at

MWI, and on this episode, I'm joined by Craig Whiteside and Hororo Ingram. They are two of the

three authors of a book called the ISIS Reader. It is a collection of some really important

primary sources about the Islamic State, speeches by the group's leaders,

written texts, and other formative documents that, along with the analysis the authors provide,

paint a really detailed picture of the group's origins and its evolution over the years.

We discussed that evolution in this episode, as well as whether such an understanding of ISIS

better equips us to anticipate what form it will take in the future, the nature of the threat it might

pose and the regions that could be most susceptible to the organization's resurgence.

Before we get to it, as always, a couple notes.

First, be sure you're subscribed to the MWI podcast so you don't miss an episode.

You can find us on Apple

Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, tune in, literally anywhere you get your podcasts. And lastly, as

always, what you hear in this episode are the views of the participants and don't represent

those of West Point, the Army, or any other agency of the U.S. government. All right, let's get

to the conversation.

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