How the Attention Economy Is Devouring Gen Z — and the Rest of Us

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.6 • 11K Ratings

🗓️ 8 July 2025

⏱️ 66 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Donald Trump and Zohran Mamdani are both proof of how the ability to capture attention is power. And the attention economy isn’t reshaping just politics; it’s also reshaping the actual economy: the crypto market, A.I. venture capital, and how people, especially Gen Z, are making career decisions. Kyla Scanlon has emerged as a leading theorist on the economics of attention and is herself a member of Gen Z. She is the author of the book “In This Economy?” and Kyla’s Newsletter on Substack. I asked her on the show to walk us through her theory of the attention economy. This episode contains strong language. Mentioned: “Gen Z and the End of Predictable Progress” by Kyla Scanlon “‘We Are the Most Rejected Generation’” by David Brooks “A Divided Gen Z Is Crying for Mercy” by Rachel Janfaza “The Price of Nails Since 1695” by Daniel E. Sichel Give People Money by Annie Lowrey “The World of Wrestling” by Roland Barthes “Peter Thiel and the Antichrist” by Interesting Times with Ross Douthat Book Recommendations: The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis A Grief Observed by C.S. Lewis Jonathan Livingston Seagull by Richard Bach Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find the transcript and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith, Marina King, Jan Kobal, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

Transcript

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0:00.0	The
0:07.0	The The last few episodes of the show have been about attention, but about attention in terms of something else.
0:37.6	Attention in terms of Zoran Mamdani and Donald Trump.
0:41.1	Attention in terms of the Big Beautiful Bill.
0:43.8	But I wanted to do an episode.
0:46.5	There was about attention in terms of itself.
0:49.8	If we're going to say attention is currency, if we're going to say it's power,
0:53.6	well, what kind of currency is it?
0:55.6	What kind of power is it?
0:58.0	Where is it strongest and where is it weakest?
1:02.5	I'm a pretty loyal reader of this newsletter, Kyla's newsletter, by Kyla Scanlan, which often feels to me like it's being sent back in time from some future
1:12.2	economy. And in a way, it is. Kyla is very much a member of Gen Z. And the economy she is reporting on,
1:20.6	the economy she is theorizing, is the one that Gen Z has been turned out into, an economy that
1:25.6	works much more digitally, an economy where
1:28.4	attention drives capital, as opposed to capital driving attention. And so she has sort of emerged,
1:34.0	I think, as a leading theorist of the economics of attention, not how they work everywhere,
1:39.4	but how they work in the part of the economy and the part of the society that is most exposed to
1:47.6	attentional dynamics.
1:49.5	Kyle is also the author of the book in this economy, and you might have heard some of her
1:53.3	different coinages like Vibe Session.
1:55.4	She's a fascinating person to talk about this with.
1:58.0	As always, my email, EzraKlined show at nyatimes.com.
	...

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