We hear, oh, you get cheaper goods because we're capitalists, free trade, you get cheaper goods.

But what is the cost of that? What is the numerical value of that?

John Gardner is the author of Manufacture Local, How to Make America the Manufacturing Superpower of the World.

Losing shot classes, I think we need to teach in high school how important it is to make a product,

how it adds value, and that you can make really good money

in the manufacturing industry.

How have America's trade policies led to the decline of domestic manufacturing?

Why is having a robust industrial base so important?

Are tariffs really the answer?

America has a lot of questions to ask itself about what we've done to our own citizens,

but also the morality of chasing sweatshop labor in other nations.

We fought a civil war to end slavery here in America, and yet it seems our moral boundaries

stop at our borders in the name of free trade.

This is American Thought Leaders, and I'm Yanya Kellick.

John Gardner, such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders.

Thank you, Jan. Thanks for having me.

It's a big honor to be here. I've been a big fan of the Epic Times and your work for quite a long time.

Well, thank you so much, and I absolutely enjoyed reading your book.

And something that I didn't expect to find in there was a particular insight that you made.

And that is, you mentioned that in these free trade models that the U.S. has applied over the

last however many decades, the concept of great power competition

was not included. And indeed, that mistake or error, or we could discuss what actually happened,

...